(N.B Here you will find the transcript of webinar Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022 broken down into all the quotes but everything has left in the order as said. )
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| Daisuke Miyao |
a) Introduction by Daisuke Miyao
- Daisuke Miyao: welcome welcome to Memory, Ridley Scott's Alien and mythology with Alexandre O Philippe. My name is Daisuke Miyao.
I'm the Director of Film Studies. I'm very excited to be here with er,
erm distinguished filmmaker, Alexander O Philippe. today. with us here.
Erm, I'd like to Hi, Alexander, welcome! Thank you for coming, thank you
for joining us. I am super excited to hear your stories. about your
filmmaking. In a particular Memory. But let me introduce you briefly
before erm asking you a question.
AO Philippe: Okay.
Daisuke Miyao: Erm yeah. So I like Alexandre Philip. He is a filmmaker (1:00) and erm creative director at Exhibit A pictures. He received, and I mean MFA in Dramatic writing from NYU's Kish School of the Arts, where I received my PHD as well. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Daisuke Miyao: Erm, his film that he's talking about today, Memory The Origins Of Alien was premiered as the opening midnight film at the 20... 2019 Sundance Film Festival and was released theatrically on home video in VOD/SVOD by Screen Media, Region M and and Dogwoof. This is a part of a trilogy or higher trilogy with other, with 2 other films, one of them most recent one is the Leap of Faith with William Friedkin on The Exorcist which premiered in competition (2:00) at the 2019 Venice International Film Festival, Venice classics, inthe 2017 Alexandre's post modern deconstruction of Hitchcock Psycho 78,/52. Hitchcock's shower scene also premiered at the Sundance film festival as the the only documentary film in the popular midnight section. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Daisuke Miyao: Um, he
and Alexandre to describes this film as film essay. Well the term essay
film has been a erm well-used critical term in film studies to describe
works by, let's say French new wave directors, um Chris Marquel, Alain
Resnais, you know those films that blurs distinction between fiction and
documentary in a self-referential or self descriptive (3:00)
way. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Daisuke Miyao: But what I like about Alexandre's essay film. Oh, no! film essay is the er... its creativity. Um, he always, you know, in dialogue with um er important films in film history, like Alien, um Exorcist, and their make... and the makers of those films um with er specific things or motifs that he imagines. So it's more like a, erm, you know, creative work of him in dialogue with the master of works of cinema. So in that sense I am really curious to hear more about his recent film Memory: The origins of Alien. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Daisuke Miyao: Um, f we talk about the cinematic arts in at the UCSD. We are opening the new center , Islani Center for cinematic arts. erm, from this coming year, (4:00) and I hope, I personally hope that we will bring back er, Philippe, I mean Alexandre Philippe to that new center, and talk more about his trilogy so in that sense the basic event to me is kind of like a preview of more events to come, so please join me and welcome Alexandre Philip, a filmmaker. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O Philippe: Thank you so much, Daisuke. I really really appreciate it. Erm, perhaps to set the stage. Do we want to show the trailer to ah, to memory? And, by the way, I do want to acknowledge obviously, my company Exhibit A Pictures, Ah you know we've been together for ah, gosh over, over a decade now making films, mostly films about film, as, as as you mentioned erm and also our partner's Screen Division and Milk House and our wonderful distributors, Legion M and with Screen Media as well. So yeah let's roll the trailer. (5:00) (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Clip from a trailer
English Voice: Every film is a product of its time and tells you something about the time it was made. There's special status that comes to some films that lodge in the Audience's collective imagination. Alien is certainly one of those films.
Another voice: Alien is a radical break with science fiction, and that sanitized view of space.
Diane O'Bannon: Hans Reudi Giger's images. They were sexual, mechanical, biological. and Ridley Scott was a gift from the Gods.
Tom Skerrit: Ridley was certain how that was gonna happen. All the innards of a cow and the blood.
Roger Christian: That was really wanting this to connect to the phobias that come from our ancient past.
American man's voice: They were all thinking about this as more than a science Fiction adventure in the future.
American woman's voice: There is a commentary in there about what we're doing as (6:00) human beings
English man's voice: Questions of Where did life come from? What does it mean to be human?
American voice: One scratch on global disaster?
American voice: It's about those monsters outside the movie theatre
Clarke Wolfe: is home to alien, was talking about something that we're still not comfortable addressing
Daisuke Miyao: Congratulations again to the successful completion of this fantastic work, Alexandre.Alexandre O Philippe: Thankyou (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
When Daisuke watched Memory, he couldn't help going back to watch all the Alien films from the very beginning.
- Daisuke Miyao: After I watched this film your film I couldn't help going back to watch all the Alien films from the very beginning. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
For the webinar, Professor Denise Demetriou was invited.
She was the Gerry and Jeannie Ranglas Chair in Ancient History and author of "Negotiating Identity in the Ancient Mediterranean: The Archaic and Classical Greek Multiethnic Emporia" and former director of Center for Hellenic studies and a huge fan of films.
So she was the expert in Mythology for this event.
Seth Lerrer the current director of the Centre for Hellenic studies supported this event
Daisuke Miyao: Erm, and I think we are inviting erm Professor Denise Demitriou erm, with us today. Erm of course, you know, she is the professor of I mean Gerry and Jeannie Ranglas Chair in Ancient History and she's the author of "Negotiating Identity in the (7:00) Ancient Mediterranean: The Archaic and Classical Greek Multiethnic Emporia" Sorry. so she is definitely the the expert ah of the mythology part of um this event. Of course she's a huge fan of films as well, I believe, est I'm looking forward to discussing Alexander's film with Denise as well, and she is, she has been the er, the er director of Center for Hellenic studies and in addition to film studies and really appreciate Seth Lerer the current director of the center for Hellenic studies, un supporter of this event. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
Alexandre O Philippe has in interested in screen moments that become essentially culture moments.
He found that there were very few specific scenes in films that have had a lasting impact on culture for decades.
He found that these tended to happen once in a generation.
- Daisuke Miyao: Um, so the first question to you Alexandre, is
the origins of this film. Hahaha. So could you talk a little bit about
how you came up (8:00) with your work about your idea about the making of your film about Alien.
Alexandre O Philippe: Yeah of course you know I mean the the the thing that's interesting about this particular film is that it comes out of or on the heels of 78/52, which is er essentially a film about the Psycho shower scene it's it's 90 min about 2 min of screen time so clearly i'm a geek. I guess you could you could say about cinema and i'm very interested in erm in the screen moments that become essentially cultural moments and there's very, very few I mean if you think about especially very specific scenes that have had a lasting impact on culture for decades. You know they tend to happen. probably once in a generation. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
He created the film "Memory: The Origin of Alien" so that it came out on the heels of his earlier film 78/52.
The latter was a film about the Psycho shower scene which lasted about two hours of screen time in Hitchcock's film
What he found really interesting about comparing the Psycho shower scene with the infamous 'Chest Burster' scene from Alien is first of all the similarities between those two scenes.
They both happened roughly half way through the film, they both take place in a very safe spaces, being a shower and a dining room, and they both took place in brightly lit rooms.
These were not what one would associate with shocking moments and so he thought at the time that they both completely revolutionised culture in a way.
- What's
really interesting about comparing the Psycho shower scene with (9:00) of
course, the infamous chest burster scene, and I don't think i'm giving
any spoilers here to people who are watching. this, erm is is first of
all the similarities between those 2 scenes. Erm, they both happen
roughly, you know, halfway through the film. Ah, they, they're both.
They both take place in a very safe space, erm. you know a shower er or
you know a dining hall. They're both actually happening in a very
brightly lit room. Ah, so not what we would necessarily associate with
er, with horror they're both shocking moments, and they both completely
revolutionized, erm you know culture, you know, in a way erm so I
thought at the time. Well, Ok, great, we've had this very successful
film about the Psycho shower scene. I'm very interested to see if we can
explore the Chest Burster scene in the same way (10:00) and
boy, was I wrong. Erm, it turns out that, in fact, they're very very
different scenes. So we, we ended up shoo..., you know we did. We filmed
quite a bit for about 9 months, and, and I think I made sort of a
cardinal mistake in the sense of thinking that I could have the same
approach, and I realized that it was sort of falling flat. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
b.iii.3) Early attempts at filming Memory
He found out that they turned out to be very different scenes.
He filmed quite a bit for about nine months and then he realised that perhaps made a sort of a cardinal mistake in the sense of thinking that he could have the same approach.
Then he realised that he was near enough falling flat.
The interviews and the content that he and his team were putting togehrer didn't quite work in the way that he envisioned.
He felt that it was perhaps a sort of a glorified bonus feature that would be found on a DVD or Blu-ray.
- Alexandre O Philippe: You know, the interviews, the... the content that we were sort of putting together didn't quite work in the way that I envisioned, and, and it felt like you know, a sort of a glorified erm, you know bonus feature and i'm like "Well, this is not the kind of film that I make, because I want to make a film really about the meaning of Alien." And so there was this moment to where I thought "you know it's not clicking It's not happening", (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
He wasn't sure that he really wanted to necessarily move forwards, but then there was one tiny little story that kept as it were sticking to the back of his mind.
It was the one about when Ridley Scott was thinking about the look of the chestburster, and so he turned to the painting triptych "Three studies for figures at the base of a crucifixion".
Alexandre himself thought it was extraordinary. It had revolutionised the art world in 1944.
It appeared to have erupted onto the art scene in the way the Chest Burster pretty much erupted onto the screen in 1979.
Ridley would show Giger the triptych for inspiration towards the chestburster design
What was remarkable about the triptych was that even though the title hinted at the fact the viewer was looking at a crucifixion scene, which was being hijacked by three gnarly figures that just so happened to be the Furies from Greek Mythology.
In fact, Francis Bacon had talked about the fact that he was being haunted or even hunted by the Furies, and they kept coming back over and over again into his work.
So Alexandre thought "Well, that's interesting. It's a completely esoteric sort of you know side story. But let me dig into this and see what I found... what I find."
From that moment, every door started opening up for him and he began to realise "Ok, what we have here on our hands is not a film about the distant future. But it's a film about our distant past. It is It has to be a mythological take on Ridley Scott's Alien"
- Alexandre O Philippe: and I wasn't sure that I really wanted to necessarily move forward, but
there was one tiny little story that kept sort of sticking to the back
of my mind, and er, i'll tell you the story (11:00)
and we're going to show a clip about this in a moment. But erm,
basically, when the, erm, you know, when when Ridley Scott was thinking
about, er, you know specifically the Chest Burster scene and designing
the Chest Burster, and what the Chest Burster was going to look like,
he turned to a triptych by ah, the great artist Francis Bacon, ah, which
has a long title, it's er, "Three studies for figures at the base of a crucifixion", and that triptych is quite I mean it's extraordinary.
It actually, in fact, revolutionized the art world in 1944. It erupted
onto the art scene the way that the Chest Burster scene pretty much
erupted onto the screen in 1979, er, and but but very relevant here, he
showed that triptych to H.R. Giger as a possible inspiration and er and (12:00) what's
remarkable about that triptych is that even though the title hints at
the fact, that we're looking at, a you know the scene from the you know
the Crucifixion is that it has been a hijacked by three really sort of
gnarly figures which happen to be the Furies of great mythology, and in
fact, Francis Bacon himself has talked about the fact that the furies
keep haunting him, or kept hunting him, kept coming back into his work
over and over again, and I thought, "Well, that's interesting. It's a
completely esoteric sort of you know side story. But let me dig into
this and see what I found... what I find", and I have to say. from that
moment forward every door started opening. And this is where I started
realizing, "Ok, what we have here on our
hands is not a film about the distant future. But it's a film about our
distant past. It is It has to be a mythologic... (13:00) mythological, you know.take on Ridley Scott's Alien"
and of course I started, you know, er talking to mythologists, Denise
of course, is, is also featured in the film, and also this, this opened
the door to erm, a very fateful meeting with Diane O'Bannon, who, I
believe, may be joining us here on this webinar today. If Diane is here.
Hello, Diane! and I have a little surprise, because Dan is right here,
hiding behind my back. This is a production still from Alien. and of
course, you know, Dan, erm, (Videoclip has been edited out from original due to copy right concerns (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
Dan was really at the origin of Alien.
His very first draft of the script that became Alien was called Memory which would become Starbeast and then become Alien.
He started thinking about calling his documentary Dan O'Bannon's Alien because the the film would be centrally speaking about him and his relationship with HR Giger and Ridley Scott.
However the story about Francis Bacon and his Furies that started it all
- Alexandre O Philippe: Dan really is at the origin of Alien. In
fact, his er erm, you know, the very first draft of of Alien was called
Memory. Hence the title of, of our documentary Memory became Starbeast.
Starbeast became ultimately Alien. But you know, at 1 point, actually, I
was thinking about titling Memory, (14:00) Dan
O'Bannon's Alien. Er, that was... that was one of the titles that we
had in mind, and because obviously, the film really is, I think,
centrally speaking about... about him and about his relationship with HR
Giger and with Ridley Scott. um, but... but yeah, so it was that story
about er... about Francis Bacon that er... that started it all.
Daisuke Miyao: That's fantastic that connections erm, could you talk a little bit more about mythology, I mean. Well, probably Denise can erm ask to Philippe as well. How, yeah,
Denise Demetriou: Alexandre, I wasn't... would you prefer to show the clip first and then talk about mythology
Daisuke Miyao: Yeah, that's fine.
Denise Demetriou: Maybe we do that
Alexandre O Philippe: That's fine. we're gonna show a clip about erm... it takes place about, I think two-thirds of the way into the film and this is where we start getting into ah Francis Bacon and you're going to be able to see that er.. er particular triptych, and... and how it relates ultimately visually to ah to the Chest Burster
Daisuke Miyao: Perfect
(Videoclip has been edited out from original due to copy right concerns (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
When Alexandre O Philippe had his producer contact Denise Demetriou, she saw in capital letters the word "ALIEN".
Immediately her mind went not to Alien the movie but to Ancient Aliens with their theories about aliens in ancient history.
She ignored it for perhaps two weeks before she went back and read it carefully.
There were other things in capital letters such as "The People Versus George Lucas" which she had seen before leading to her next thought which was "Oh, no, this is actually something I would like to be part of!"
- Alexandre O Philippe: All right heh he heh
Denise Demetriou: It's great to watch that that sequence again after er 3 years. I guess it's been 3 years right
Alexandre O Philippe: 3 years Well, we probably did the interview, I think, in 2018 at this
Denise Demetriou: Yeah, that's right. It was almost 4 years ago. Yeah. and I have to admit, Alexandre, than when I when I first received the email from your producer. What I saw was in capital letters, the word alien. and immediately my mind went not to Alien the movie. But you know theories about aliens in antiquity, in ancient history, and I ignored it for probably 2 weeks before I actually then went back and read it carefully, because there were other things in capital letters, like "The People Versus George Lucas", which I seen before and then I thought, "Oh, no, this is actually something I would (16:00) like to be part of". So erm so I almost couldn't participate here
Alexandre O Philippe: i'm glad you didn't think we were we were crazy.
Denise Demetriou: i'm sorry
Alexandre O Philippe: Yes, i'm glad you didn't think we were we were crazy.
Denise: Yeah, no, no, no. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
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| Denise Demetriou |
- Denise:And I think you know the way that you describe the process
of discovering what actually was the... was the thing that held
everything togetherAlexandre O Philippe: YuhDenise Demetriou: is very familiar, I think to researchers in... researchers in general, because we just keep persisting right and then follow our intuition. and then suddenly something serendipitous happens, and um and we find the thread that sort of holds everything together and I think that the Furies, you know, and I guess the real question is whether we can claim that the Xenomorph, the alien of the Chest Burster scene, is a form of the Furies, er whether conscious or unconscious, and what it might represent. today, you know, er 43 years ago when Alien was (17:00) when Alien premiered, or or you know, at any other moment in time. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Denise:And I think that you know what the clip showed pretty clearly is that we can definitely, very easily see the visual connections right between the xenomorph as an embodiment of the Furies. Because we can trace the genealogy of its shape and form to Ridley Scott who pointed Giger to the paintings of Francis Bacon, who had been inspired to paint the Furies for from this trilogy of Greek tragedies known as the Oresteia, which I mentioned in the... in the clip. But I think more interesting is really to try and think about what the Furies might represent and whether that's something that we can see erm in the Xenomorph. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Denise Demetriou: How can we interpret the xeno form and for me at least, and I think there are going to be as many interpretations of this as there are people who watch the movie. (18:00) The Furies in general, in ancient Greek mythology represent guilt. Erm, In particular in Ancient Greek mythology they represent the guilt that the murderer feels... feels.. um, who murders a blood relative, and more specifically, it's about children who commit a crime and kill their... one of their parents or kill their parents, er which is what we see in the myth of the Oresteia, with Orestes killing his mother, um and then, being hounded by the bloodhounds, he calls them of his mother, and these are the Furies right who pursue him, their eyes dripping in blood and this sort of has to come to some sort of resolution at some point. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Denise Demetriou: But if the um... if the.... If the Furies represent guilt, then how does that feed into the narrative of the movie Alien? Right. (19:00) Erm an I think we then have to think of, what would the crew of the ship, the Nostromo, be guilty of, erm or what crimes are they paying the price of? Are these crimes their own? Or are they crimes of humanity erm because they might possibly carry a crime of humanity in general? And that's also something that we see in Greek myth as well, I should say. So for me when I was er, when I watched rewatch the movie. and as Daisuke, when you contacted me to do this, I, when I watched the sequels of that I went and watched some of the prequels as well, because, of course, one of them is called Prometheus. So I watch Prometheus as well, and parts of Covenant, erm, er. So where it was and I just, it just reminded me of how amazing the movie Alien really is. Erm so I was really honored to be part of your field. Erm, but so, when I was thinking about this question, "what are they guilty of?". The things that I could think of, at least is that the the (20:00) crew itself is not really necessarily guilty of many many things right? (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Denise Demetriou: I think that they are more or less blameless. erm but I think humanity, the humanity I guess that's presented in this movie could be said to be sort of arrogant, or have some kind of excessive arrogance in the sense that the crew of the Nostromo works for a corporation that's mining different parts of the universe, and exploiting and extracting resources from it. So I think, you know, we can see parallels there with sort of imperialism or colonialism erm , which could bring the Furies. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Denise Demetriou: Erm, and then I think also, we have these creation of synthetic life that we see in the movie where humans are now creating other, um other life (21:00) forms, erm and this perhaps also is excessive in a certain sense, that might also incur this, um, the wrath of the Furies, (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Denise Demetriou: Er, and as we watch the movie, we also find out that the synthetic like life form that's aboard the shape Ash actually is there to ensure that the ship brings back a sample or of the xeno... xenomorph of the LV alien, or to bring back the xenomorph itself, which they then plan to use as a weapon so we can also see war as a crime. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Denise Demetriou: You know that humanity can erm can carry out, and for which it can be, it can be punished, and of course there have been er other explanations for this, that erm that I've seen, and we can talk about those, too. ah but for me at least, those are the 3 things that I... that I generally think of. when I think about "Okay, why are the Furies here, and what could this represent?" (22:00) But I think that guilt is a really powerful emotion erm for humans, and er that's why I think it appeals to us er thousands of years later, or throughout, perhaps er, history. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
Alexandre O Philippe's need to explore the Furies had nothing to do with the characters in the film itself but beyond the film, in our society in the real world itself.
- Alexandre O Philippe:Yuh. I mean I... you know I think I, I... from my perspective you know I don't want to, I don't want to spoil Memory because i'm assuming there are people watching this this women who have not seen the film, which, by the way, is pretty much available at you know, everywhere. Erm, I think it's actually Amazon Prime I think right now, among other other ways, you can of course, get the blu-ray and all that stuff. Erm, but erm erm, I... to me I... I, I think there's... there's another sort of layer of that, and which is not necessarily this idea of guilt within the film itself, but beyond the film, and into our (23:00) society, and let me sort of explain what I mean by this. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O Philippe: What's... what's really fascinating about Alien as a, as a film is that you could make the argument that it was not really supposed to be a hit in 1979. Erm you know the story itself really erm had been told in underground comics. Erm, it had been told in a number of B movies from the 1950s and 1960s. You know, Queen of blood, Planet of the Vampires, It, The Terror From Beyond Space. Er, it's a story that sort of lived in the shadows or in the sort of the underground and the B realm for, for a long time. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
d.iii) Seeing the success of Star Wars
Coming out the 1970s, as far as he could perceive it, he noticed that people were yearning for a lighter kind of space opera fair that obviously gave the public Star Wars a couple of years earlier which was obviously a massive success.
- Alexandre O Philippe: Erm, coming out of the '70s you've got, you know clearly people were yearning for a lighter kind of space opera fair that obviously (24:00) Star Wars gave us, you know, a couple of years earlier, which was obviously clearly a very massive success. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O Philippe: Erm, but but, case in point I think you know there's this very sort of famous sort of side-by-side erm of 2 movies that came out literally at the same time in 1982 ET and John carpenter's The Thing, and audiences overwhelmingly embraced the cute, cuddly friendly Alien that we just don't want to let go of and completely rejected er this, of course, marvelous film er, you know this now called classic The Thing which is very Lovecraftian as well. Er, very dark. Erm, has a lot of connecting points as well with, with alien, I mean, especially in the sort of the Lovecraftian space (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
d.v) Alien's Chest Burster scene as the next step from Psycho's shower scene?
So he was asking "Wait a minute. Erm you know. Why did Alien become this thing? "
- Alexandre O Philippe: and you have to wonder "Wait a minute. Erm you know. Why (25:00) did Alien become this thing?" And, and I think what's really fascinating about this is that Im we have to go back to the shock right just the way that in a way you can deconstruct the shock of the shower scene and, and the way that the shower scene, you know. nobody saw it coming, but it sort of really announced. You know, guys, were no longer in the fifties welcome to the 1960s, and, and, and you know the chest burster announced something. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
d.vi) Chest Burster scene effected mainly men?
According to his version of history, it's claimed that it was mostly men who were affected by it and it was mostly men who ran out of the theatre to hide in the bathroom when the chest burster scene happened.
- Alexandre O Philippe: But what's so fascinating to me about this is that historically it was mostly men who were affected by it. It was mostly men who ran out of the theater to hide in the bathroom when you know... when the Chest Burster er happened. It's a complete subversion in a way and you know, you've got male pregnancy for crying out lot in the film as Axel Carolyn in memory. er er says "basically it's a male rape movie in space" right (26:00) (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
So he wondered if the Furies represented a kind of retribution for the repression of women in society which he noticed was not part of the cultural dialogue back in 1979, and now in the 2020s a cultural dialogue began to open up in society.
- Alexandre O Philippe: and, so you have to wonder, do the Furies represent a kind of retribution for the repression of women in society, which was something that, by the way, was really not part of the cultural dialogue obviously in 1979, but a cultural dialogue that finally, now, a few years ago, we started openly, you know, to to to you know having in our society, you know. and as, as Clark Wolfe mentions in the film, she says, "Alien addresses the guilt that a patrich... patriarchal society feels" (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
So Alexandre's sense was that perhaps it could be said that Alien was not the movie that people wanted to see in 1979 but needed to see.
That perhaps Alien started to present themes and ideas that needed to simmer and eventually people could start talking about it.
In that case for him, Alien was forty years ahead of its time and yet it was a big success in its own time which Alexandre thought was remarkable about the film.
- Alexandre O Philippe: So my, you know, my sense in this is that perhaps we could say that Alien was not the movie that people wanted to see in 1979. But maybe Alien, was the movie that people needed to see in 1979. Maybe Alien started to present ideas (27:00) and themes and images that needed to simmer, er, so that eventually we could start talking about it and if that's the case, then then Alien was literally four decades ahead of its time. And yet was still a big success and I think what's remarkable about that film, and I think that's why I, you know one of the main reasons why I call it a masterpiece. is that I think people responded to it in such a profound, powerful, visceral way, but without really being able to articulate why. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
After the use of the word in the set of Francis Bacon paintings, he also thought about Dan O'Bannon, HR Giger and Ridley Scott as a sort of a 'triptych' at the core.
While there were obviously so many incredible people involved with the film, there was a symbiosis at the core.
He didn't assume anything conscious about Ridley Scott pointing out the Francis Bacon triptych featuring the Furies
- Alexandre O Philippe: And I think also to talk about Dan O'Bannon, HR Giger and Ridley Scott, who I really see as sort of the the triptych, if you will at the at the core, I mean, there's obviously so many incredible people involved with the film. But at the core you had to have this sort of symbiosis, you know, of those, of those three. I don't think there was anything conscious about this you know (28:00) the, you know. why did Ridley Scott point to this triptych. He wasn't thinking about the furies? (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
d.ix.2) Had Jorowsky's Dune not failed
He wondered how it was that Dan O'Bannon ended up meeting HR Giger on the failed Dune project for Jodorowsky, and that if Dune had not failed, then Alien surely would not exist.
- Alexandre O Philippe: What, you know. How did Dan O'Bannon end up meeting H.R. Giger on the failed Dune project by Jodorowsky, er, you know, had had Dune not failed. erm Alien probably would not exist. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
d.ix.3) Corman had the vision to say
He then thought about how it happened that Roger Corman had the vision to say "Look, I'll produce your film, but I think you can probably find more money that I can give you" and essentially take it out of the era.
- Alexandre O Philippe: You know, how did it you know. happen to be that Roger Corman, you know, had the vision to say "Look, I'll produce your film, but I think you can probably find more money that I can give you" and, and essentially take it out of the era. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
d.ix.4) On Ron Shusett's couch
Then Dan O'Bannon with his Crohn's disease that he was going through, slept on Ron Shusett's couch for a while after coming back to the USA after the failed Dune project.
Here here it seemed that they were talking about parasites and parasitic wasps etc.
All elements, all of the serendipities that happened as a result of that, he would have to wonder stories and archetypes and monsters are perennial.
- Alexandre O Philippe: You know you've got Dan's, you know, Crohn's disease that he was going through, erm, the fact that he slept on Ron Shusett's couch for a while coming out of the failed Dune project. and you know they they started talking about parasites and parasitic wasps and all that stuff. So all of these elements, all of the serendipities er that happened as a result of that, you have to wonder sometimes. (29:00) Can it be, then, that stories and archetypes and monsters are perennial? (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
Could it be that these ideas, monsters, and themes from humanities ancient past come back every now and then to haunt it but not randomly.
Could they come through books, movies and culture, because they need to tell us something that humanity has to hear at a particular point in history, and so perhaps that what the Furies are in Alien.
Whatever there was to
say about it, that is what he thought.
- Alexandre O Philippe: Can it be that these ideas and monsters and themes from our ancient path... past, come back every now and then to haunt us, but not randomly? Could it be that they come to us sometimes through books, through movies, through culture, erm, because they need to tell us something that we have to hear at a particular point in history, and maybe that's what the Furies are in alien, I don't know, that's what I think (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
Denise pointed out that something signficant about the movie of course was that the protagonist is also a female which was unusual for this type of movie in the first place, and this gave Sigourney Weaver a role which led to her popularity
- Denise Demetriou: yeah no that's great. and of course er the protagonist of the movie is also female, right? Which was unusual for these... this type of movies in... in the first place, so, erm and that was,e r, I guess, what really gave Sigourney Weaver, er so she became really popular after that but I want to. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
Sticking with the idea of the Furies, one of the things that she had been discussing in one of her classes a lot at the time, because they had been reading Greek tragedies, is the timelessness of these tragedies.
- Denise Demetriou: I'd like to er, sort of stick with the Furies for one more, I guess (30:00), a few more minutes, because erm... one of the things that I've been discussing in my class, erm one of my classes a lot recently, because they've been reading Greek tragedies, and I know a lot of them are in the audience, erm, is the timelessness of these tragedies (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
She thought that just as Alexandre had seemed to be alluding to the idea that it didn't have to be conscious.
While there would have been all of these different coincidence occuring to get this particular movie made, in timelessnes she thought about how these stories made themselves available to humanity to use consciously or unconsciously.
With that there were also the stories that they can think along with.
- Denise Demetriou: and I think that's something that you were alluding to now, in what you were just saying that it doesn't have to be conscious, it can be unconscious, erm you have to have all of these different coincidences sort of occuring to get this particular movie er but the timelessness I think of these stories is what makes them available to us to... to use, you know, erm, or, consciously or unconsciously. and also there are stories that we can think with right. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
So people can watch Alien today and get a completely different sense of what it's really about than if they had perhaps watched it in 1979
- Denise Demetriou: . So we can actually watch this movie. We can watch Alien today and get a completely different sense of what it's really about than if we had watched it in 1979. Er, those of us who were still alive then. Er, right so that's one thing. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
They played the scene, and agreed it was the stuff of nightmares.
She wondered what inspired him to create the sequence because there was a combination of the past and the future, and the sound was really effective.
The visuals also in a way recalled the movie.
- Denise Demetriou: but I (31:00) I
ha... I wanted to ask you if we could see the opening sequence where
you actually depict the furies, er, and then maybe you can erm talk
about how you envisioned them, because something in your answer is
something, as you were speaking. you were talking about them sort of
being these archetypes of a lot of different things, and I just wonder
whether that opening sequence was influenced in a way by, by, but in
any way from your own sort of understanding of them.
Alexandre O Philippe: For sure all right, let's play it, let's play the scene
(Video clip had been edited out from the original due to copyright concerns)Alexandre O Philippe:Alright. We (chuckle) We're gonna give people nightmares
Denise Demetriou:It is the stuff of nightmare.
Alexandre O Philippe: It is the stuff of nightmares. I'm sure
Denise Demetriou: Yeah, So what what inspired you to create a sequence because there's this combination here of like past and future, and the sound is really (32:00) effective. The visuals sort of recall the movie
(Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
For Alexandre, to talk about it, there was a lot to unpack, and perhaps he could talk about it for a couple of hours.
A first thing to point out is that he thought a lot about was a lyric from an old Genesis song Time Table from the album Foxtrot "through time and space, though names may change, each face retains the mask at war."
- Alexandre O Philippe: yeah I mean there's so much I, you know every time I talk about this this particular sequence. I don't even know where to begin because there's so much to unpack . like I we could talk about this for... for probably a couple of hours, but i'll i'll just say that you know the first thing is is I, I, I think a lot about this one sort of lyric from an old Genesis song from the album Fox Trot, which is, it goes like this "through time and space, though names may change, each face retains the mask at war." You know this idea that through space and time erm, we all play roles. Erm, that you know we we Recur We keep coming back. you know the the good and the bad, you know. I mean like what's happening in Ukraine right now, erm, you know. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
With that the idea of the Furies erupted not just within the film but into culture back in 1979.
So he had it written on the opening scroll " Temple of Apollo. Delphi, May 25th, 1979" which was the date of the theatrical release of Alien.
So it hints that this idea of the Furies essentially errupted onto the silver screens, and so came out and back into culture on that day.
- Alexandre O Philippe: Talk about something, you know, very dangerous and very scary sort of coming. (33:00) Coming back to the surface. erm, so, so this idea that you know that the I that the Furies, in a way, as I've said earlier, er erupted not just within the film, but into culture in 1979, erm, I, this is why the opening scroll says:" Temple of Pol... Temple of Apollo. Delphi, May 25th, 1979," which is the date of the theatrical release of alien and so it's a hint. that this idea that the Furies essentially errupted onto our silver screens, came out and came back into culture on that day. And so, you know, you've got erm, yeah, I mean that that opening sequence was crazy, as you know, Kerry, our wonderful producer and er you know er, my great business partner will will will tell you. er, it was a nightmare to make. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
f.iv.1) Shooting in Italy
It was shot in mostly in Delphi while parts were shot in Voltaire in Italy, because some of the ruins n that that particular amphitheatre actually reminded him of the derelict ship.
It was a nightshoot and it was pouring with rain.
A wonderful fog came out at 4 o'clock in the morning
- Alexandre O Philippe: Er, it was. obviously we shot at Delphi. We er, parts of it were shot in Voltaire (34:00) in Italy, erm, because that that that particular amphitheatre actually reminded me of er, some of the ruins reminded me of the derelict, and er we actually shot. It was a night shoot, and it was poured it, you know, pouring down rain. Er, and then this wonderful fog came out of like, you know, 4 in the morning. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
f.iv.2) The Ancient weird carvings
The
ancient weird carvings were shot in Switzerland at the Giger museum,
and it was the slabs tha people walked on, and it was great that it was
all designed by Giger.
Since it had been around for a while, the slabs were cracked and resembled walls of an ancient cave.
- Alexandre O Philippe: erm you know some of these sort of ancient, weird carvings are actually were shot in Switzerland at the er, at the Giger museum it's actually what you walk on and this is what's so great is that this was all designed by Giger. but you erm know, because obviously they've been around for a while, and er, they're all sort of cracked and so it looked like sort of the walls of an ancient, you know, of an ancient cave. erm (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
f.iv.3) The Space ship and the Furies
The space ship and the Furies themselves were shot in Los Angeles.
- Alexandre O Philippe: and then, of course, er the spaceship erm set and the the furies our furies themselves, er you know we shot in in Los Angeles; (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
f.iv.4) Sound
With sound important, it was much better to listen to it in a 5.1 theatre rather than on Zoom to Lloyd Hegel's extraordinary sound design.
- Alexandre O Philippe: but as you, as (35:00) you mentioned that the sound is very important and and I know it's much better in a 5.1 theater than on, than on Zoom to hear er er Philip er Lloyd Hegel's extraordinary sound design. But basically the idea was to erm, to ah, invert the sound and the pictures, so that when we begin at the temple of Apollo, you, you're in this sort of womb like, you know, you hear the sounds, (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O Philippe: but as you, as (35:00) you mentioned that the sound is very important and and I know it's much better in a 5.1 theater than on, than on Zoom to hear er er Philip er Lloyd Hegel's extraordinary sound design. But basically the idea was to erm, to ah, invert the sound and the pictures, so that when we begin at the temple of Apollo, you, you're in this sort of womb like, you know, you hear the sounds, essentially you have a spaceship, and once you cross the thresholds er into the spaceship, you start hearing sounds of nature. cicadas, I mean, obviously we had all these insects that we that we filmed at the temple of of Apollo. Erm you know. you have to wonder. did they just show up serendipitously into, you know into the film, because Dan O'Bannon was quite afraid of of insects of bugs. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O Philippe: I forgot to mention that yet another ancient origin (36:00) of the film itself was actually a pre-Memory screenplay that he wrote called They Bite, which Diane very kindly shared with me. It's an extraordinary script and erm, you know without spoiling it, you have to wonder if those of you, and look I'm a huge fan of of The Thing of the John Carpenter movie, but you, you have to wonder, after watching the John Carpenter version of the thing, er how can, how can John possibly not have er read the Dan O'Bannon screenplay "They Bite" it's it's a really it's a terrific, terrific script, (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
His idea was to create a visceral experience.
It was made for two types of audiences.
The way he saw it was that Memory had two types of audiences.
There was the massive audience of young fans who know everything about the franchise, and have seen everything.
AO Philippe wanted to dig deeper and take the the audience into a deeper journey and give them new things.
He believed that he was someone who cared about film studies and who cares about what the films do to our brains as a culture,
He even thought it was very important to reach out to people who may
never even have watched Alien
- Alexandre O Philippe: Erm, so anyway, but I digress I you know we're we're we're talking about all these different sort of erm you know origins, but yeah, the idea was to really create erm, a a very visceral experience, you know, I erm obviously Memory is you know you've got two types of audiences in a way you've got on the one hand, you've got the massive (37:00) young in fans who you know know everything about the franchise who've seen everything, erm and we were obviously, I wanted to sort of go deeper and sort of take them onto into a deeper journey er, and and give them new things. But you, but I also i'm also very interested as someone who cares about film studies, and who cares about, erm you know what films do, er to us to our brains, to our cultures. I... I... you know it's very important to reach out to people who may have never even watched Alien, watch Alien right? (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
For people who were familiar with the iconography of Alien, of course there are certain markers that were unmistakable such as when the audience gets into the spaceship and sees the blue mist, they know that it means, and this is juxtaposed with something that not supposed to at all be in the Alien film, which is the Furies
There's dialogue consisting of some lines from the Oresteia in ancient Greek first spoken by a voice that is supposed to the the Nostromo's computer Mother, as the ship is awakened by the Furies that he described goddesses of the Earth.
Then of course the Furies themselves delivering that line later on in the film that is known to have completely obsessed Francis Bacon, and it would have been at the back of his mind when he created his own triptych.
- Alexandre O Philippe: So for those... the people who are familiar with the iconography of Alien, of course there are certain markers that are unmistakable, right, when you get into the spaceship, and you see the blue mist. Er, you immediately know what this means, but this is juxtapose, of course, with something that's not supposed to be at all in Alien, which is the Furies. We have the dialogue, of course, you know, some of the lines from, from the Oresteia in ancient (38:00) Greek. Er, spoken first by you know, Mother. the, the, the ship itself awakened by Furies, goddesses of the earth. and then, of course, the Furies themselves delivering that line that later on in the film, we learn, will completely obsess or obsessed Francis Bacon, er, and that was at the back of his mind when he created his own triptych. So erm , so all of that is meant to and it was a huge gamble, I'll already admit it. It was meant to pose the film's major dramatic question in a non erm, narrative way mean, I mean, and the question is which you know, we sort of dive into right after this opening sequence is you know we established this idea that the Xenomorph is a kind of Fury erm and what does that mean? So really the question is, what is the relationship (39:00) between the Xenomorph from Alien and the Furies from Greek mythology? Is there something there or, or not? And this is what really the film sort of explores, and through that particular question gets to explore, you know the larger themes and and ideas of er of Alien. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
Something else that AO Philippe was probably unconsciously inspired by was that this was a time when they were also working on Leap of Faith which was about William Friedkin his film The Exorcist.
He had spent many days with the director and phicking his brain.
They spent an entired day talking about his opening sequence in The Exorcist.
He actually talks about the fact that it's a sequence that you couldn't make today anymore.
It's ten minutes long but doesn't really have a narrative arc.
It just completely pulls the viewer in through it's tone and mood, with the sense of dread of an ancient evil is coming back, which would sound familiar.
He thought that it all came subconsciously in the
making of the film Memory, and he trusted that.and he liked to trust
those elements, and so it came together in the sequence that showed thw
waking of the Furies.
- Alexandre O Philippe: But I think, you know, I think I was probably unconsciously also inspired by.... you know this was a time. this was a time when I was... we were also working on Leap of Faith, which is erm, a film about William Friedkin and the Exorcist. I spent a lot of time, er, many days with William Friedkin and picking his brain, and er we spent an entire day talking about his opening sequence in The Exorcist, erm, which you know, he actually talks about the fact that it's... it's a sequence that you couldn't really make today anymore. You know it's it's 10 min it's not... it doesn't really have an narrative arc It just completely pulls you (40:00) in through this sort of... the... the tone and mood, you know the sense of dread of... of an ancient evil coming back, you know. that sounds familiar, you know. So erm, so that's it really, erm, I mean I think... I think all of that came, you know, subconsciously, I think, er, in the making of this film, and I trusted that and i'm... you know I definitely call myself an intuitive filmmaker and... and... and sort of I, I like to trust those elements, and it came... it came together. in the the sequence that erm that we just showed. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Denise Demetriou: Yeah, no, that's that's it's always fascinating to see the creative process right from erm from the person who created this... this film, and erm because we are getting close to the... to the hour I think that it... that let me say erm a couple of things. I guess one is that (41:00) your film is really fantastic, and I really encourage everyone to watch it, because it's... because it just reveals all these things about Alien that I don't think people knew before it appeared. so it's a great film essay er and then I want to remind the participants that erm, erm please ask questions. Erm, Alexander is here to answer them, and and if there are any mythology questions, I can answer them but really just ask Alexandre things about his movie erm, and er the way to do that is to just type your question in the Q & A box. So please... please do that and as for me i'll hand this over to my colleague Daisuke. And now who will moderate the Q. and A. and Daisuke i'm sure you have lots of questions as well.
Daisuke: I do actually, erm, not directly erm connected to related to er Furies and um er, let's say(42:00) the er, the male rape theme of Alien erm. I must ask you a question about the cat. (chuckle)
Alexandre O Philippe: I knew you were gonna do that. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
 |
| Alexandre O Philippe |
h.i) Daisuke wanted to know about the cat
Daisuke as a cat person who wrote a book on cinema and cats had to ask a cat question.
He recalled that the grown up Alien appears in the film for the first time as a point of view shot of the cat Jones and of course the survival of the cat at the end of the story .
He wondered if there were any implication of a Greek mythological reading about this
This would have been beyond AO Philippe to have any real clue about but if he should, then it would make a sequel to Memory or even a sequel to Daisuke's own book.
But the question put his mind immediately in the point of view of Jones. While he didn't have any clue about it, he also thought about the fact that there were some connections to the Egyptians
- Daisuke: Uh, You
know, the famous cat Jones appears in Alien uh, and as a cat person who
wrote the book on cinema and cats, I must ask this question,
Alexandre O Philippe: Of course
Daisuke: Do you uh in relation to Greek mythology er, as some of you may remember that the er, the grown-up Alien appears in the film for the first time, as a point of view shot of the cat Jones
(laughter) So, is there any er implication to that er there any mythological reading or possible mythogical reading between the er, the you know the Greek catsAlexandre O Philippe: But I think that just like a signal here
Daisuke: Camilla and
Alexandre O Philippe: and that's good, Daisuke
Daisuke: Yes (43:00) yes
Alexandre O Philippe: Hello, hello.
Daisuke: Yes.
Alexandre O Philippe: Okay I yeah. yeah, I can, it just er I just cut off is there any implication, I'm just gonna keep my video off. Maybe there's the bandwidth problem. i'm gonna
Daisuke: yeah yeah
Alexandre O Philippe: visually in just a minute but um
Denise Demetriou: But we can hear you though, so that's that's all good
Alexandre O Philippe: Okay, great. I'll come back in a minute, usually it takes like 30 seconds or so
Daisuke: Okay
Alexandre O Philippe: but so is there any implication, dot, dot, dot
Daisuke: (chuckle) Yeah, er yeah, the um, uh, the appearance and the significance of the cat in that film is that er, um um a mythological um fight against the er, I mean two returns of the repressed or (chuckle)
Alexandre O Philippe: Well, that's a whole other
Daisuke: That's the survival of the cat in the end with Ripley,
Alexandre O Philippe: that's a whole other film I don't... I don't know...
Daisuke: (chuckle) (44:00)
Alexandre O Philippe:... if I know it should make sequel to memory, or if you should make a sequel to your book
Daisuke: (chuckle)
Alexandre O Philippe: Maybe maybe both you know, I don't know that's a really cool question. I mean I really... um and you're right it's funny, because literally, when you ask the question um I me... my mind immediately went to that sort of point of view of... of Jones. It's really really interesting, who notices that.
Daisuke: Hmm (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
With that, Giger was especially was very drawn to Egyptian mythology.
In his painting of the three stages of the alien life cycle, there was a figure that had been compared to the goddess Nut which he didn't know whether it was the goddes of the night or of the cosmos in Egyptian mytholog.
Something that he understood what that knew about how Giger was very intuitive, he would paint in a trance, and wake up from painting without even knowing what he painted.
Here they were talking about an unconscious force which AO Philippe thought in terms of, and so the cat plays a key role in mythology, but he thought that Denise would have more to say about it
- Alexandre O Philippe:... that he's the one. But
um I don't know that feels more like a mythological question, perhaps
to Denise right, huh. The... the cat, and mythology I mean there's also
some... some connections, by the way, to Egyptian. er..,
Daisuke: (Utters something nodding)
Alexandre O Philippe: in er, in er you know, like Giger specifically um was very drawn to... to Egyptian, Egyptian mythology. In fact his.. his very first painting uh of er the str... the 3 stages of uh of the alien, um, you know, it's been compared to um um (45:00) you know some of the representations of the goddess Nut, the the goddess of the erm of the Night, I believe, or the cosmos uh in in Egyptian mythology, um you know again, like Giger was, was very um, very intuitive, I mean sometimes, you know, he would paint at night in a trance, and sort of not even remember. but you know, just wake up to a painting, you know ah, so, so you're talking about a lot of sort of um unconscious forces, uh , you know I play here, you know, I think in... in all of that but erm, but obviously the cat plays erm a key role in... in mythology, I mean, i'm sure Denise has a lot more to say than I would about this a lot.
Denise Demetriou: Alas, I don't know that I do... the only thing that I couldn't think of when cats and mythology was actually Egypt, because the... the cats were so much more prominent in Egyptian culture in general so that's funny, because, as you kind of started (46:00) to talk about Egyptian mythology, and I thought oh, perfect .(Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
But it addressed the question about what other Greek mythological elements or forms of symbolism are thought to be reflected in Alien.
There's
Egyptian mythology which is really important to point out, because its
not just Greek mythology
- Denise Demetriou: but I think
that this question also, or what you were just saying, also sort of
addresses. the first question that I have that we have in the Q, in a Q
& A box, which is, you know, what other Greek mythological elements
or forms of symbolism do you think are reflected in Alien but I think
that there's Egyptian mythology, as you said, which is really important
to point out, because it's not just um Greek mythology.
Alexandre O Philippe: Yeah, and two quick things I want to say about this, erm you probably didn't notice, 'cause actually it happens, it's a it's almost a subliminal thing in the opening sequence. but i've never actually mentioned this at.. in a Q and A, There is a very brief shot of the ruins in Delphi, where you see a cat er, actually sort of hiding within the... the ruins, and erm it's funny because I saw that cat a little... a little bit too late and Robert, erm you know our director of photography was there barely had time to sort (47:00) of repo the camera to try, and I was like "Robert. We've got Jones", you know and so he... he tried to get the cat. But then, of course, the cat, being a cat, was very good at hiding, and so we just got like a second or second and a half of the cat sort of disappearing. And so I answered that as a reference to Jones in the so Jones is there. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O Philippe: But but but the other thing I want to say is, and again, without spoiling Memory, because hopefully people will want to watch the film. But we actually... there's quite a bit of erm you know there's a whole sequence, really on Egyptian mythology, I think, in in in Memory, and we actually found I found this really cool erm early sketches from Ridley Scott that were sold at auction, erm, that were essentially unpublished and they're sort of like pre you know, Giger , you know sort of his vision of ern, of LV-426. and the derelict and he literally envisioned this ancient temple. I mean it's... it's mind-blowing, and then separately, you've got, um, (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O Philippe: uh, you know, Dan O' Bannon himself before he even met Ridley Scott, thinking of the the derelict ship as a pyramid. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O Philippe:I
mean. Come on. I mean talk about these guys who didn't even who know
each other at the time, um, you add the fact that Ridley Scott himself
wasn't even... uh didn't even like sci-fi mean He acknowledged that he
did not like Sci-fi. He did not care for it. Yeah, coming from the guy who did, you know Alien and Blade Runner back to back. unbelievable stuff, right? But but that these, these erm these creators, erm who came together really (49:00)
through serendipity, and had these sort of separate, yet completely
compatible visions about distant future, that... that had echoes of our
ancient past, you have to wonder like whoa... like is mythology alive
really... you know are the Furies alive? Did
they really sort of like..? I mean there's a there's a um, a frequency,
I um, I think actually Will Lynn says that in the film there's a
certain frequency to myth and...and you have to wonder did Dan O'Bannon
and H.R Giger and Ridley Scott really tap into that frequency.
Daisuke: Great the cats snarling teeth reminds Doug Evans of the Alien. Thank you for that comment. Doug
Alexandre O Philippe: (chuckle) (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
Daisuke
picked out a question about where Greek History had anything to do with
the names in the film, and with that could Ripley be considered a Fury
since she avenged the father Kane murdered by what was being referred
to as the 'xenomorph' child which would have been the alien beast as a
Chest Burster
Denise Demetriou's response was to think about first of all how Kane would be Ripley's father, but can she be considered a Fury in general?
Daisuke: Yuh, um there are some other related questions, er, not cat related, but Greek questions.(50:00) Does Greek history have anything to do with the names in the movie? Er, could Ripley be considered a Fury, since she avenged the father Kane urm murdered by the term child?
Alexandre O Philippe: That's a question for Denise.
Denise Demetriou: I think that's an interesting one. I guess I hadn't thought about it in those terms and we would have to kind of think about how Kane would be Ripley's father , but can she be considered a Fury in general? I mean, I think that she does avenge the crews. I mean, you know, the Alien keeps killing a crew member by crew members, so she does sort of avenge their deaths and fights until the very end to get rid of the Alien that hops onto the the shuttle, (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
Thinking about the names, she could consider the name of the Nostromo as Latin rather than Greek but they were close enough as they were dealing with a very similar ancient mythology or ancient world.
She couldn't make any
comparisons in that way to any of the other names in the movie.
Once Daisuke stressed again that Kane would have been murderd by the 'xenomorph' child which would have been alien beast as a chest burster
- Denise Demetriou: Anyway, that she's trying to escape in So I think
that that's... that that... that that's (51:00) possible
a possible way of reading that. Um, the names of the.. of the movie
Yeah, Nostromo is Latin, uh from Latin or not Greek but close close
enough right? We're still talking about ancient... er ancient
mythology, er or ancient the ancient world. Um, um I can't remember
what other names are there in the movie that could be um Greek or Latin
Alexandre O Philippe: coming from. Well, that's a really good question Well, I mean obviously xenomorph. but that's not even... I don't think that's a word that's actually mentioned.
Denise Demetriou: No, I think it's the critics who used that
Alexandre O Philippe: I think that came after but you know. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
But
AO Philippe thought about the how Dan O'Bannon had a series of
characters with names interestingly different from what the the
characters have in the final movie and of course Ripley who was
originally named Robey was a man, but he didn't think that the film
would have been anything of the success it was without the lead male
character changed to a female lead, because it revolutionised film as a
medium
- Alexandre O Philippe: It's interesting, too, that I mean if you think about all the characters and all the character names and you look at the you know Dan O'Bannon's original cast of characters. They all had different names as a matter of fact, Ripley was not supposed well, Ripley was not Ripley, or Ripley was not supposed to be a woman initially. That... that's another interesting... interesting fact. Um you know, I I think obviously the film would not (52:00) have been anything of the success that it was without without that. I mean that that also I mean, talk about another way that the film revolutionised, um you know the medium, um what a character (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Denise Demetriou: Yuh
Alexandre O Philippe: Um Ripley is
Denise Demetriou: Yuh and just let me, because the the same person who has this question also specified that they meant that Kane gave birth to the Xenomorph. Erm so that's... that's the sense in which, there were father But I think for me there's something if we see Prometheus and Alien, and sort of the whole prequel story that gets to Alien, then I think that there is a way in which er, the, because in Prometheus humans turn out to be the creations of aliens, right and so they are the children who commit some kind of crime against their parent. and then they sort of maybe getting punished for it by the time that we get to alien that's a whole other story, but I think that there are this idea of revenge and avenging might, if we look at the whole story, there may be (53:00) more things there. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
k.i) Does cosmic horror apply to the Furies?
Monty Johnson who was a colleague of Denise Demetrious, was able to point out that the horror in Alien seemed to be on several levels, not just the visceral gore of the chest burster, but also the Lovecraftian cosmic horror of the alien, being absolutely indifferent to human suffering in contrast to a film such as Spielberg's ET.
So he wondered if cosmic horror applied to the Furies of mythology as well.
While they were not indifferent to human suffering, in fact they avenged violaters of oaths etc.
But he noted the fear they cause seems not just to be from their
dim and chimerical visages, but also from a deeper, darker, more
“inhuman” source.
- Denise Demetriou: Um, my colleague, Monty Johnson, has a question, erm he says, "Thanks a lot. This is great. The horror in Aliens seems to be on several levels. Er, for example, not just the visceral gore of the chest burster, but also the Lovecraftian cosmic horror of the aliens being absolutely indifferent to human suffering, etc. in contrast to ah, ET. I was wondering if this cosmic horror applies to the Furies of mythology as well. Um, but they are not indifferent to humans suffering. In fact, they avenge human violations... violate... violaters of oaths, etc. but the fear they cause seems not to just be from their dim and chimerical visages, but also from a deeper, darker, more "inhuman" source.". (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
Denise Demetriou's response to this was that she thought that it did apply but she would have to think through this a little more.
She decided that the story of
the Furies' birth was very relevant here, which was something that would
he heard about in the Theogony.
In the tale, the Furies are born when Chronos the god actually castracts his father Uranus.
Then blood that drops from his genitalia into the sea. But also the blood drops onto the Earth and then the Earth became pregnant, and from that the Furies appear.
She wondered if Monty was onto something
- Alexandre O Philippe: Hmm
Denise Demetriou: Um, I had a
Alexandre O Philippe: Is that done
Denise Demetriou: I think I think it might be for me and I thought
Alexandre O Philippe: (chuckle)
Denise Demetriou: Yes, I think that that it does apply. I would have to think through this. I guess, a little bit more. but you know the the story of their birth, I think, is very relevant here, which we hear about in the theogony. The Furies are born when Chronos the god actually castrates his father erm and erm the blood that that drops the from the genitalia... that drop onto... they drop in the sea. But the blood drops onto the earth, and then the earth becomes pregnant, and the Furies are one of the things that sort of appear from that. So I think that, um, Monty is onto something here as well. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O Philippe: I
remember that we talked about Chronos during our interview and in fact,
this is something that I really wanted to bring into the film. Um, but
you know it's it's it's just one of those really difficult questions
you know when you make a film like this, which you know, (55:00) (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O Philippe: (55:00) I
think I and I think that's one of the fundamental differences really
between making a film about film, something that has to be a theatrical
experience, or that people have to be able to enjoy whether it's in the
theater or on their laptop versus you know, an actual book which you
can, You can put down. You can think about it. you can reflect. Er, is
it has to be accessible. Erm ou know, more more accessible, more readily
accessible, (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O Philippe: Erm ou know, more more accessible, more readily
accessible, I think, and erm, and so I know we put together a scene
about Chronos, and and ultimately we felt like, you know, maybe that was
going a little bit too deep (chuckle) for you know, for the film. but I
love that story because I mean you know that's that's another example
of er er castration. I guess. I know in a way of, of er it's certainly I
mean there's there's a really. I always saw a relationship there, uh
that I thought it was really cool, but we just couldn't make it work
within the context of er, of the film. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Daisuke: Speaking of characters, (56:00) there's
a question for Matthew, er, talking about the idea of humans creating.
What role do the androids play in this greater conversation. Why do you
think they were designed in a way they were? Er, there are many
unsettling details about them, like the weird white liquid that ooze
from them when they are hurt or damaged.(Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O. Philippe: Yeah, I mean, Ash is er, Ash is a piece of work obviously as a... as a character, and I mean I think certainly erm, erm, there's actually a great scene. It's one of my favorite moments in... in memory of Clarke Wolfe, um just going off on Ash. She absolutely hates him as a character and you know he's... he's not a very likable character, obviously. Erm, but er, so i'm not gonna spoil that because I think that's... that's a really great moment. Erm I don't know. I don't know. I mean again, you know (57:00) that that's sort of the white goo. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O. Philippe: Erm I don't know. I don't know. I mean again, you know (57:00) that that's sort of the white goo. I mean you know you can... probably there's probably all kinds of stuff you can read into that, erm, y... y... you know. Um, you know you... it's... what's always so interesting to me about thinking about movies, the making of movies. Um, is how much is conscious versus how much is not necessarily in, and all the meaning that we tend to.... um which rightfully, I mean, I think that's part of the fun of the exercise is to think about the hidden meanings the... the Easter eggs. The thing that that the creators have thought of that we didn't necessarily think about, and I think there a certain extent that's all true. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O. Philippe: But I think, um, you know to go back to William Friedkin. You know when... much of the interpretations ah, that have been made about the Exorcist or many of his other films. He basically told me, he says: (58:00) "look I don't know" that just, you know. Why did they do this? "I don't know it just felt like the right thing to do" (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O. Philippe: And... and I think... um but I think when when filmmakers or or artists operate at that level, um, I think things start to happen beyond their sort of conscious knowledge, and... and again I mean to go back to, er, I.. one of my favorite lines from... from Axelle Carolyn in... in the film, she said "You know. ah, if if er Dan O'Bannon you know and Ron Shusett had gone to the studio and said, "Hey, we're making a male rape movie in space, can you give us money?" Ah, of course, people would have said "No" (chuckle) (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O. Philippe: You know to... to... to do that so... so... so... erm, so I don't know I, you know, like that's really a question for Ridley Scott, and I think it's a question (59:00) for... for... all of the people, the incredible... probably Roger Christian or some of the other people who were involved in the making of that film. Erm, it may not be anything beyond "that was a cool look". Yeah. (chuckle) (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Daisuke: Well, similarly, you know, er, good luck that we may probably be issues of conscious and conscious that you have just mentioned. But there's a question about the numbers how about the significance of numbers. seven humans, plus the alien, eight sentient entities on board the ship. Eight is also a very computerized number. Everything in computers is a power of 2, ah, for example, 8 bit, etc. Even the corridors, including the one picture behind you. Alexandre. 8 sides shapes. It seems like there is a strong connection of computers. tech. Mother is looking after the crew, Alien is bio mechanical and perhaps a comment on how (01:00:00) technology can rise and hunt humans. Is there anything in Greek mythology reflecting this, the question about number 8? (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
Denise Demetriou: I can say a little bit about this. and then I don't know, Alexandre, if you want to add something. Erm yeah, numbers are also important in Greek mythology. But I think the part of the question that's really intriguing to me is er how technology can rise up, although that question just disappeared but how technology can rise up and sort of harm humanity and I think that actually ancient Greek texts er generally not generally, but sev... several of them, in fact, express an anxiety about technology and technological progress, for just for the sake of progress. And I think that erm, these ancient Greek texts also provide alternatives for how people should er deal with technological progress, and how they and how it should be (01:01:00) used to benefit their lives in sort of ethical and... and ways erm.. and to... and to benefit also civic societies rather than just sort of relentlessly pro... progressing, er... without really any thought as to the effect of the technology. So I... I do think that there is an element erm in erm Greek myth that addresses this, and it's actually going to be part of my next project. Oddly enough, this question is er... is sort of precedent precedent , I guess, in that sense. But there, there, you go! So I don't know if you want to add something,. Alexandre to this, or if we should move to another question. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O. Philippe: Ah, no, I mean I'm not... i'm not a numerologist. Uh, uh, uh. But but no, I mean sure, I mean, I think all that stuff is really important and relevant and and interesting you know,. I, but, but you know. this is what I love right. By the way, I mean to me that exercise of sort of like digging into films into great films. This idea that you can never get to the bottom of it and and and and (01:02:00) and I think every great film, every great piece of art that that's very true and and the more people you bring to the table and the more people start sort of unpacking it, or thinking about things, or er, you know it's it's virtually endless and it's and I think it's endless, because those movies connect with the human experience in a profound way. The reason why we we respond to those movies is because they are connected to a... a... a... a human experience that goes beyond time, that goes beyond space, right? They're not just movies and I think that's the... that's that's the point here, and I think that um, you know we could be having a Zoom a week about Alien ah... and and you know and have a revolving door of of either film scholars or just film buffs just showing up, and we would learn something new every single day, and that's what I just love about movies so much (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Daisuke: Yes, speaking of connections, this is a question, (01:03:00)
Michael, uh, In Memory, the idea of synchronicity between the
involvement between O'Bannon, Giger, Bacon and Scott is brought up. Do
you think and this is regards to the sequels and prequels, that
they're the type of unconscious power becomes diluted once overt
explanations and other conscious motivations take over? As a side note
,your movies are fantastic and very illuminatingAlexandre O. Philippe: thank you That's very nice. That's very kind, um I... you know... I... I tend to uh and I don't want to offend anybody. I tend to... to really sort of put Alien... the original one on a pedestal Um, I I like Aliens quite a bit I don't think Aliens. Well, obviously you can certainly say there's no aliens without Alien. right? Um, you know I I like the third more than most people do after that I don't really care so much about the films,(01:04:00) but, as I've always said during Q.and A's, you know ah Ridley scott has more than earned the right to make as many Alien movies or anything he wants to do. Um, I just... I just feel that um... you know you can never sort of replicate, I think, that magic, and I think... I think there was... um. There was a very palpable magic, truly, um, in an example in all of the serendipities and all of the connections that are discussed at length in... in Memory, ah, that you can never duplicate. You know, um, and... and so I think that... that symbiosis which I really is the way that I see it, I mean, I think you know, I think Dan O'Bannon needed Giger, and he needed Ridley Scott um. If... (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O. Philippe: if Dan O'Bannon and Giger had not met and connected, um, you know there's no Alien. (01:05:00) If if Ridley Scott had not ah championed Giger after Dan O'Bannon basically said, "Look", I mean, you know, Dan O'Bannon, who at the time had no money, commissioned these extraordinary paintings, er from Giger, ah you know, to show what this could be, and when he showed that to when he showed the Necronomicon and you know to ah, um, ah Ridley Scott. Really Scott responded and and Ridley Scott erm, in spite of all the naysayers, stuck to his guns and and championed Giger, and insisted that Giger would be a part of it. So you know you could. you could say what you want but... but, and... and probably any other director come on board at a time. They would have probably caved to the studio and said, "You know what we like your Giger, but he's not... he's just too dark. He's just too messed up, ah it's just not gonna work." (10:06:00) and and you don't have an alien, you know you don't have that sort of greatness of a film. So, erm So I think... I think that symbiosis, the sort of the magic that happened with those 3 people meeting, and all the incredible people who surrounded them and all this incredible cast, and... and coming out at this particular point in history, you add it all up. And how can you possibly duplicate this magic. I don't... I don't think you can (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Daisuke:
Erm Doug say it's another Scott movie Blade Runner, er with benefit
from this kind of um mythical interpretation um, and it also on that. Alexandre O. Philippe: Well, I you know i'll just say briefly that... so Blade Runner er is one of my all time, all-time favorite films. I love Blade Runner even more than than Alien. Um, Blade Runner is a film that at some point in my life, erm, I... I think in my teens (01:07:00) I was on like there's a period where I was like watching it every day and um, and the you know, obviously I was playing the 'tears in the rain' scene on on repeat. Erm, I can't... I mean it's I... I can't watch that scene without tearing up. It's... it's truly one of the... one of the... it, it for me. It goes into pantheon of scenes. It's a... it's a transcendent sort of movie moment. Um, and then to... to think about the fact that this was Rutger Hauer improvising. I mean, you know this is just one for... one for the ages right there. So yeah, that's a film that at some point I would love to make a film about, is... is Blade Runner. um. I don't know that there's anything else I would like to say about that. But yeah, I mean, talk about movie magic, um, that film is, ah, is just... yeah, it's brilliant (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
But he thought more specifically within the context of Lynch Oz is this idea of you when someone grows up watching movies and eventually become a filmmaker, there's a handful of films that stay with the person and that have this very, very powerful impact.
AO Philippe could point out that Fellini famously said "I keep making the same movie over and over and over again" and that the painter Andrew Wyeth, kept painting the same familiar hill over and over and over again.
Vertigo breaks broke heart every single time and every time that he watched it, it was a completely new experience.
But he urged people to be out on the lookout for Lynch Oz. It would a trip for Lynch fans and a trip for Oz fans.
He thought it was going to be a trip for people who just are interested in films and in the creative process.
He was super proud of the film and they were still putting the finishing touches right at the time for the premiere.
Daisuke also was excited about the film and was looking forwards to watching that film
He grew up watching Twin Peaks by Lynch and he could agree that Vertigo was definitely the most beautiful and moving Hitchcock film,
So he was looking forward to AO Philippe's project.
- Daisuke: Speaking of your future projects (01:08:00),
erm Michael has a question about your next film, Lynch Oz: Erm, this is
yeah, what I wanted to ask you about as well, because you know we...
you have touched upon um Francis Bacon, um you know. That is a very
influentual artist, um, for afornamed David Lynch as well, and we have
also talked about Dune which was made into a film in 1980s by David
Lynch as well, So could you. Could you tell us a little bit about Lynch
Oz?
Alexandre O. Philippe: Yeah. so, so ah, ah er, coming out you know premiering in a few months, I can't say where but it's a big festival (chuckle)uh, will be our next film, ah which is going to be Exhibit A Pictures eighth feature and my personal tenth, So it's er, it's kind of a milestone for me. Um, yeah. So the title of the film (01:09:00) is Lynch Oz, and as the title implies it, is a film about the relationship between David Lynch and the Wizard of Oz, and it's a film that goes down the the... the rabbit hole of erm this idea that David Lynch is actually trapped in Oz in a way that every David Lynch film is potentially a form of retelling of The Wizard of Oz. But it's a film that more broadly speaking is really about some of the ideas that I think I've been exploring in in previous films, including Memory, uh, ideas of you know, about you know, inspiration and influence. But I think more specifically within the context of Lynch Oz is this idea of you know, when... when you... when you grow up watching movies and you eventually become a filmmaker... ah... there's... there's a handful (01:10:00) of films that stay with you and that have this very, very powerful impact on you, and whether you like it or not, you will forever be trapped by those films. You will never be able to escape them, and they will always find a way to come back and to return in your in your work. I mean, you know, Felini famously said "I keep making the same movie over and over and over again" um you know Andrew Wyeth, you you know kept painting the same familiar hill over and over and over again, and... and I think you know to me there's this real sort of beauty about that and that doesn't mean that... I think you know that we're sort of the artists are sort of on one note, uk quite the contrary. It means that they love to dig deeper and deeper and deeper into the same ideas and I think in trying to connect with that (1:11:00) and understanding that, you know that's when I think as artists we start having a sense of what we're about, you know, um and that there is no point in trying to escape those, ah, those things that... that appeal to us. I mean for me, um you know my personal sort of film, you know, my one sort of like desert island movie is Vertigo, and I, I can't, I can't, um, I can't escape Vertigo. I don't want to escape Vertigo. Vertigo breaks my heart every single time, erm and and every time that I watch it, it's a completely new and you know experience so, so anyway. So yeah, be on the lookout for uh, for Lynch Oz. It's a er, it's a trip. Uh, it's a trip for Lynch fans. It's a trip for Oz fans and I think it's going to be a trip for people who just are interested in films and in the creative process. I'm super proud of the film um, we're we're still putting the finishing touches right now for ah, for the premiere. (1:12:00) but, um, Yeah, i'm i'm super proud of it
Daisuke: I'm so excited about it. um and i'm looking forward to watching that film. Uh, as I uh grew up with the uh watching Twin Peaks by Lynch and, and as you say, Vertigo is uh definitely the er most beautiful and um, moving film, Hitchcock film uh to me, too. So I'm, looking forward to your project. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Daisuke:
Um we still have maybe a time for one or 2 more questions. Um if we can
go back to Memory, maybe you said that the uh, the appearance of the
Furies in the film could be interpreted as a form of retribution.
inflictive, due to the repression of women in society. Could you expand
on this? I've always thought of Ripley as such, as such a strong female
protagonist. Alexandre O. Philippe: Yeah, I mean I don't I don't know that there's you know more (1:13:00) necessarily that I want to say about that without completely spoiling that segment in... in... in the film itself. But I mean, I think that uh you know, I want to go back to this idea that... that I think. Um er, well, I have to be careful, because there's a really cool clip with Helen Mirren actually in the film that sort of sets the stage that I, that I don't want to spoil. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O. Philippe: Um, but I think that um , I think that this idea that the chest burster ah made men specifically so uncomfortable uh, in the theater er in 1979. Um, is a very interesting thing, you know I think those were... those were, you know, images that... that we were not you know this kind of sort of body violence. um, you know. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O. Philippe:Ah we were not used to seeing (1:14:00) that on... on... on a man, you know obviously. Um and so I think, um, I I think that this kind of you know this particular scene very specifically, um you know, had such a very profound effect. on culture and I don't think it was conscious I don't think it was an intellectual process that people were going through. I think again, there was a very sort of visceral reaction to... to the chest burster, which, by the way, erm, I think another remarkable thing about that scene is that you can also make the argument that that the entire film of Alien completely hinges on the success of the Chest Burster and... and the success of the chess bursting scene relies basically on a puppet on a stick, I mean that that's what it is? And and you know, uh there were a lot of doubts, er, not just in Ridley Scott, (1:15:00) but in the entire crew of you know. could they really pull this off in a way that's going to be effective... er there's a lot of things again well documented you'll see that in memory. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Alexandre O. Philippe: A lot of things that went wrong er during the making of that particular scene... that a lot of mistakes that turned out to be in fact, quite serendipitous, and and quite, uh, quite wonderful for for the film itself. Um, but you know the... the scene could have completely fallen flat, and um, and I think you know, the film could have been ridiculous on... on that front. So um ... so everything, everything, everything hinges on... on the chest burster scene. In fact, the chess burster scene is the reason why the film got green lit. uh, tt was that scene in the script that, um... that basically. But when people, you know got the executives. to go "yeah, we gotta... we're gonna make this" (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
s.i) Dan Clarence's question
Dana Clarence was one of Denise's colleagues in literature.
Thanking AO Philippe for the fascinating conversation so far in the websinar, she mentioned how she anxiously counted down the days for the release of Leap of Faith and found the wait absolutely worth it.
But she had a question about the idea of make pregnancy speaking unconsciously to something larger in society, With this in mind, pregnancy would be as an alien infestation of abomination.
She noted that this would have been such a prominent theme in supernatrual horror at the time such as in Rosemary's Baby, the Omen and The Exorcist.
She wondered if at some unconscious level, all these films speak to larger conversations about gender roles, and embodiment, especially at the time in the late seventies.
- Denise Demetriou: And actually the (1:16:00) the last question that will ask from the audience before we thank you, um Alexander is from my colleague in literature. Dana Clarence, erm and she says "Thank you so much for this fascinating conversation. I remember anxiously counting down the days for the release of Leap of Faith, er, and the wait was absolutely worth it. I have a question about the idea of male pregnancy, speaking unconsciously to something larger in society. Pregnancy as an alien infestation and abomination. This is such a prominent theme in supernatural horror at that time. Rosemary's Baby, the Omen, The Exorcist. Do you think at some unconscious level, all of these films speak to larger conversations about gender roles, embodiment, especially at that time in the late seventies." (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
s.ii) Tale of an encounter with William Friedkin
In
response, Alexandre noticed some of the obvious connections between
Alien and The Exorcist, but he was not planning to make a film about The
Exorcist and he wasn't planning a trilogy.
One day he was with Gary Sherman having a meal at the Fantastic Film festival in Sitges in Spain and then William Friedkin called out his name and invited them to his table revealing that he had heard about 78/52.
They exchanged phone numbers and he said "Next time you're in LA, I want to buy you lunch" and that's how things progressed through serendipity.
Then he went into what was obviously a 'deep dive' into The Exorcist.
But he didn't always consciously think about connecting points of movies leading to others sconsciously but on the other hand he could probably write a while book on pregnancies in horror films.
It wasn't just in the 1970s, because there were a lot of recent films such as the French film "Inside" which he found quite gruesom and dealt with pregnancy as a central theme.
It seemed like there were a million films that if he
couldn't remember, his horror colleagues would be able to talk about.
- Alexandre O. Philippe: Yeah, I mean absolutely I don't know... I don't know how else we can you know we we can ring that, I mean, I love that You're by the way connecting to all these... all of these other films. Erm, yeah I, I guess (1:17:00) (laughs) for sure it's... it's funny, because I keep , uh, you know I keep not thinking about uh, some of the more obvious connections, by the way, that exist between Alien and The Exorcist. Um, and then and then, you know, thanks for reminding me about this, um, which... which is so funny, too, because I, um, I was not consciously planning on making a film about the Exorcist at all. I was not even thinking about this idea of a trilogy and I'll just tell a very quick story here because I believe Gary Sherman, who you saw in um, the beginning of the Francis Bacon sequence very briefly on.. on screen. The great Gary Sherman is with us I believe in this Webinar so. Hi, Gary! Uh, he actually texted me yesterday to say you was going to be here. Um but er, Gary and I were... were having... we're having lunch in Sitges (1:18:00) at the... the Fantastic Film festival in Spain, and William Friedkin er, called... called out my name, and invited us to his table, and he had heard about 78/52 and you know he basically took my phone and gave me his phone number and said, "Next time you're in LA, I want to buy you lunch, a" nd that's kind of how things progressed. It was total... total serendipity. but... um, and then, of course, I sort of went, you know, deep, obviously did a deep dive into into The Exorcist. But um but yeah, all these connecting points of movies when leading to the other, you know, I don't always consciously think about that necessarily, erm, and I think I mean i'm sure we could write a whole book on er, on pregnancies in... in horror films. Um, I mean there's I mean there's not just in the seventies, I mean we're talking also about there's a lot of recent films that there's the the French film Inside erm which (1:19:00) ah, ah, um, is quite quite gruesome er, that that deals with that as a... as a central theme, um, I mean there's there's a. there's probably a million other films that I can't I can think of right now at the top of my head that um... that my horror colleagues would be able to tell you about. (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022)
- Denise Demetrious: Yeah, thanks. That's great and Dana, and everyone else who is still here, ah with us. I just wanted to say that there, when Daisuke called this a preview, it's because what we would like to do next year is actually show Memory, a Leap of faith, and 70/52,
Alexandre O. Philippe: Oh yes, a Leap of faith, 78/52, yuh
Denise Demetrious: 58, sorry. I don't know why yeah
Alexandre O. Philippe: Oh, it's okay
Denise Demetrious: So please stay tuned, and it will be like a really great event we expect next year at some point hopefully in person. But er, let me just take this (1:20:00) opportunity to thank Alexandre so much for this.
Alexandre O. Philippe: Thank you
Denise Demetrious:... for this. Erm, I,I,I learned so much every time. so this is
Alexandre O. Philippe: Likewise. Like wise
Denise Demetrious: yeah this is really really great. Thank you, I'll hand this over to my colleague and friend Daisuke, to close things off, but, but I wanted to say thank you personally before
Alexandre O. Philippe: thank you very much, Denise It's always a pleasure.
Daisuke: yes, er thank you so very much, er, Alexandre for joining us, you know with your fantastic um, re-readings of your film... readings of Alien and beyond. And Denise, thank you so much for, um, um make our conversations so special, historically, theoretically, as well. Thank you so much Denise and uh thank you, everyone, for your fantastic questions, uh, insightful comments. I really appreciate it. and thank you Ana Marie for coordinating er this technical, er I mean Zoom webinar. (1:21:00) Erm, thank you so much. and er as Denise said, uh, this is the, the first of, um, lots of you know coming events. that we want to do, um, with you all. So stay tuned, and this is to be continued. But thank you so very much, everyone for joining us. Thankyou
Alexandre O. Philippe: Thankyou so much, thank you (Alexandre O. Philippe - Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology for the UCSD Arts and Humanities Events on the 23rd of February 2022
"Transcript for the webinar Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology with Alexandre O. Philippe" was posted on April 20th 2022
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ReplyDeleteRenamed Alexandre O Philippe's "Memory - origins of Alien": Report with complete transcript in segments as reference quotes for the webinar Memory: Ridley Scott's Alien and Mythology with Alexandre O. Philippe on 10th May 2022
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